Gordon Marr talks with NZM columnist Frank Gibson Jr…

Longevity is not everything, but it’s not difficult to comprehend that anyone who has been ‘cutting it’ since making his mark as a six-year-old in 1952, must be something very special. Fifty years of playing and performing drums for local and international jazz, pop and cabaret artists reasonably earns the title of ‘New Zealand legend’.

Frank Gibson Jr’s rich depth of skills, appreciation and knowledge of the art of drumming in general, and jazz drumming in particular, has absorbed and inspired his many students and fans to this day. Consequently when asked to interview Frank about his drumming history, experiences and achievements, I jumped at the chance.

How long have you been playing?

Well, over 50 years! I started when I was six under the eye and benevolent tutelage of my father Frank senior, who was also a well-known drummer who played jazz, big band, swing and rock. My first public performance was at the Auckland Town Hall where my father and I performed a drum duet. I was eight. The feedback from the audience was unbelievable.

How were you taught?

Initially mainly by ear as I was a good listener. Also by my father utilising direct learning, by imitation. I also developed by association with other drummers of Dad’s era – Don Branch, Barrie Simpson and Brian Spence. Lockie Jamieson was a huge influence on me. He was the be-bop player of the time and had played in strip clubs in Chicago with Sonny Rollins. All of these people were extremely kind and encouraged me continuously.

I just learnt the sticking and didn’t learn to read, until I found out the hard way that I had to if I wanted to work with tight cabaret acts from NZ and overseas. Andy Brown (bass), myself and either Murray McNabb or Phil Broadhurst on piano were the rhythm section for all overseas artists. For me the first big one was Dianne Warwick in 1975. Each concert was a lesson.

What was your first kit?

It was a Carlton that was hived off from my father’s kit, which was a double bass drum, double tom-tom outfit with Zildjian cymbals. Later on Dad bought me a set of Rogers.

Who was the first drummer to influence you?

Due to genetics and environment I was able to feel and react to jazz from a very early age at a subconscious level. I was influenced by the music that surrounded me from the womb onward – I was soaking up the big bands of Basie, Ellington, Harry James, especially Woody Herman’s first Herd with Dave Touch on drums. Joe Morello was my first idol, around the age of 10 or 12. During high school two recordings turned my thinking around. They were ‘Bags Meets Wes!’ featuring ‘Philly’ Joe Jones on drums and also the Cannonball Adderley ‘Plus’ album with Louis Hayes. Those bands had such a great feeling.

Which drummer would you single out of all of them?

The Jones boys; ‘Papa’ Joe, ‘Philly’ Joe and Elvin, above all – those three changed the way drums were played. But strictly speaking I don’t have a favourite. I respect all musicians who have put in a lot of hard work and eventually become masters in their field. If I had to pick it’d be ‘Papa’ Joe, Kenny Clarke, ‘Philly’ Joe, Elvin, Tony Williams and Jack de Johnette.

What about your time in the UK?

In 1977 I realised I needed a change. I had been working mostly in jazz groups. Dr Tree had an album of the same name, the first fusion album in NZ. The Neophonic Jazz Orchestra and a whole heap of studio work encompassing all genres. I really felt I needed to be in a more challenging environment, working with older, more experienced and superior musicians to myself.

Did you find it challenging when you got there?

You bet! I’d been working six nights a weeks in NZ, naturally that’s what I thought I should do in the UK. Consequently for the first time in my life I auditioned for a six nights a week 10pm-2am job with a rock group. There were about 20 trying for the gig and I was successful, but jazz work started to come in, together with studio work, so I didn’t need to take the rock job.

I had been recommended to studio contractor David Katz by other NZ musicians already in the UK – Bruce Lynch, Billy Kristian, Dave MacRae. I won him over but I had no idea this would be a complete orchestral gig. 2pm-5pm at BBC Sheppards Bush studios. David Essex, whose TV special it was, told me I was part of the orchestra backing the guests. This led to five more weeks of Essex shows. I was also playing jazz with Dick Morissey (tenor), Ray Warleigh (alto) and the Tony Lee Trio.

One of the guests on the David Essex Show was Leo Sayer who in 1978 offered me a world tour with his group. Two weeks rehearsal in LA, one month in Australia, 10 days in NZ, a week in Hawaii, three months in the States – all with a full road crew. Never set my kit up for six months. That opened doors for a lot of things.

What is your thinking about education?

I have been teaching drums for 35 years and came to the conclusive thought some time ago that jazz is not a ‘style’ – it’s a feeling. Therefore you can teach the disciplines of music but, as an example, you can’t learn be-bop from a book, and also when discussing music of a very high level, words aren’t good enough – they always fall short.

But what do you teach people about jazz?

Very little. You can certainly influence what they listen to and to a certain extent how they might interpret it. Eventually they mature on gigs, surrounded by more seasoned musicians who are capable of stretching both imagination and technique. In the end, or the beginning for that matter, jazz is ‘the art of rhythm’. I always recommend recordings with a depth of feeling and spirituality like John Coltrane’s ‘A Love Supreme’ from 1964.

The other side of teaching is also to prepare students for all the different music feels that are out there – all to be mastered if you want to earn a living. You can’t specialise, you have to be able to play all of them and eventually master all of the genres.

In 1991 I joined the Western Australia Academy of Performing Arts of the Edith Cowan University, as full time lecturer in jazz music for five years. I’m still teaching privately and bringing together talented young musicians in Frank Gibson’s New Jazz Mobile’ ensemble with four front line parts, piano and rhythm. We play originals and arrangements from top NZ musicians like Mike Nock, Alan Broadbent, Dave MacRae, Phil Broadhurst, Murray McNabb, Denny Boreham. This is the best education of all, rehearsing, reading and learning what it’s like to play in this size of group with sustained intensity, regardless of tempo or dynamics, and ultimately to know what it means to pay some dues.

What is your current kit?

I am now a Yamaha drum endorsee and have a custom made set – all be-bop sizes. I like Elvin Jones’ adage of “buy a cymbal and learn how to play it”. Right now my Yamaha drums sound beautiful. I enjoy the elevated bass drum for projection and volume, the wonderful sound of the handcrafted custom oak shells. The hardware is single braced and light.

I do prefer a medium to light stick and use the Frank Gibson Jnr signature sticks made by Promark. In general I’m not a gear freak. My current set up of Yamaha drums, Paiste cymbals and Aquarian heads [all endorsed] is great, but it’s through tuning and touch I achieve my own sound. I tune a perfect fourth between toms with the bottom skin tighter than top on all drums except the bass drum batter head which is tighter than the front head. I never tune on a gig, but on the soundcheck I may tune for the room if necessary.

What would other drummers notice about your style?

When I finally heard myself I sounded like a collage of many different drummers and not much of me. It was not until I was about 31 that I started sounding like myself. Other drummers would probably notice that over the years I have developed an individual cymbal beat and vocabulary.

When Jack de Johnette came to NZ in 1998 the trio that warmed up the audience was Phil Broadhurst, Andy Brown and myself. Talking with Jack afterwards he said to me, “I really like your playing because you sound like yourself with certain influences and I like all you cymbals.” That made me feel good!

What albums do you have out there or on the drawing board?

I have one currently on the shelves entitled ‘Rainbow Bridge’, which was recorded in Melbourne in 2003 and features Matt Clohesy on bass, Sam Keevers on piano, and my all time favourite tenor sax player Jamie Oehlers. Another one as yet untitled and due for release soon was recorded at Revolver Studios in Waiuku and features the same musicians except Ben Turua on bass. I am also on many other people’s albums such as Jamie Oehlers’ debut as leader recorded in Sydney.

Where do you fit in the band dynamic?

Without doubt the drummer is the most important member of the band. Drummers must work towards being good accompanists where comping is complementary to the soloist either instrumental or vocal. It is good for up and coming drummers to study how Art Blakey displays dynamics and how they build in all of the ‘Jazz Messengers’ recordings, or how the Miles Davis rhythm sections (from 1954-1969) were organised with each player knowing exactly what he had to do.